Agenda item

GRANDMA BUGGINS, 3 WHITE HART PARADE, LONDON ROAD, BLACKWATER, GU17 9AD

 

To consider and determine an application for a new premises licence application for Grandma Buggins, 3 White Hart Parade, London Road, Blackwater, GU17 9AD in accordance with the requirements of the Licensing Act 2003.

 

The following supporting documents are attached:

 

Appendix 1 - Application for new premises licence and premises plan

 

Appendix 2 - Representation from Hampshire Constabulary

 

Appendix 3 - Representation from interested party

 

Appendix 4 - Mediation – amendment to application

 

Appendix 5 - Mediation communications - representations not withdrawn

 

Appendix 6 - Extracts from section 182 Guidance

 

Appendix 7 - Extract from Hart Statement of Licensing Policy

 

The Chairman welcomed everyone to the Hearing.  All attendees introduced themselves, and their role within the meeting. 

 

The Chairman asked if there were any declarations of interest, or if there were any objections to any panel members.  There were none.

 

The Chairman explained the process and order for the Hearing in respect of a new premises licence for Grandma Buggins, 3 White Hart Parade, London Road, Blackwater, GU17 9AD having consideration of The Licensing Act 2003.

 

The Licensing Officer summarised the background to the application contained in her report and the role of the Licensing Team and the request being made to the Licensing Sub Committee.

 

PC Dennett explained the location of the premises.  He referred to his report and the immediate concern regarding details in the application.  This centred around:

 

·       Crime and disorder and detailed violent incidents at the premises and offences committed in the local area. 

·       What providing alcohol with food deliveries only entailed

·       The closing time on a Friday being missing

·       Lack of engagement with the Police, before and during the application process

PC Dennett felt these details made the application unacceptable and recommended it be rejected.

 

Councillor Tarbet on behalf of Blackwater and Hawley Town Council stated he found it unacceptable and inappropriate for this licence to go ahead, having consideration to and fear for the public safety and prevention of crime and disorder.  Councillor Tarbet further advised he lives nearby and the area experiences drunk people, noise and rubbish from there.  The main concern was people who were already intoxicated from the two pubs in the locality would use the sale of alcohol after these times as an extension to this.  Furthermore, he felt this would encourage a different demographic to the area, and for the residents living above this would fuel noise, arguments and more crime and disorder for the Town Council.

 

The Chairman offered the applicant’s agent the opportunity to question any of the statements made.  There were no questions at this time although he explained while he shared the concern of both parties when he had tried to engage with PC Dennett, he had not received a response.

 

Members asked PC Dennett had email’s been received.  PC Dennett advised no contact had been receive prior to the application.  Members asked both PC Dennett and Councillor Tarbet if they had been in contact with residents above the premise.  Both confirmed they had not.

 

Members asked PC Dennett if he could provide further details on the incidents he had referred to involving staff from the premise, PC Dennett stated it was not suggested the situation had been antagonised by the staff. 

 

Members questioned the Licensing Officer is there had been any reported issues since new operator had taken over. They confirmed there had not.

 

The Chairman invited the applicant’s agent to put forward their case.

 

He clarified the request was for a late-night refreshment licence, sale of alcohol with the same hours for food deliveries.  The request was not for alcohol to be purchased from the premises. 

 

Members questioned the applicant what his reason for the application was.  He explained it was to help the business to generate extra income to help it survive after suffering during Covid.

 

Members questioned if he has worked in premises before where alcohol was sold.  He confirmed it had and listed examples of timescales.

 

Members questioned the applicant regarding the police report of previous violent behaviour, how would he manage this.  He responded the premise is not a nightclub or pub, they are just requesting a licence to be able to deliver beer and wines with the food, so there should not be anything else to do as there will be security measures, but it will not be on sale.

 

Members observed it had not been stated what noise reduction measures would be in place and what would be done to ensure alcohol was not sold to underage people. He clarified they wished to withdraw the request for a recorded music licence. 

 

Members asked for clarification of the requested closing time on a Friday as this was missing from the application.  This was confirmed as 3am. 

 

Members confirmed with the Licensing Officer that no complaints had been received since the new manager had been in post.

 

Members requested clarification if the application was granted what would happen to existing licence, and what is relationship between current and new management team.  The applicant advised he has been working with new management since July.  Since that time what was a 2* premise was now 5*.  If the licence was granted the applicant would take over existing license himself as a business operator and taking control of business.  The existing licence would then be surrendered.

 

Members questioned if PC Dennett could provide further details regarding the previous violent incident.  PC Dennett confirmed two gentlemen had attempted to purchase using a counterfeit note.  The situation moved outside of the premises.  Since that time there had been no support from staff and no statements received, so the police had been unable to proceed.

Members asked the applicant how they would manage the situation if customer came in and want to purchase alcohol to takeaway with their order.  The applicant’s agent confirmed they would be informed the sale of alcohol on the premises is not authorised, for home delivery only.  Measures they would put in place for that would be Challenge 25 and no ID no sale, and anyone delivered to, if the driver had any concerns they would return to the store.

 

Members questioned if someone had previously had a delivery including alcohol, and then came into the store, or if someone came in and was intoxicated, what would happen?  The applicant’s agent reiterated it would not be authorised and if it became a problem, they would be told they can go somewhere else to buy alcohol we only do for food delivery.  There is a local shop and a 24-hour Tesco in the area.  There would also be signs to advise of this. 

 

Members asked the applicant what he would do to ensure a situation does not escalate between staff and public.  He explained they would tell them of alternatives and defuse situation and he has enough experience to refuse nicely and calmly. 

 

Members asked how he would make sure confrontation outside shop did not happen again.  The applicant responded it would be reported to police.

 

The applicant was asked to clarify offering the sale of alcohol with food would be to 12.00 midnight every night.  The applicant confirmed this.

 

It was explained to the applicant we expect our licensing premises to work with us and the police, and members of staff involved would be expected to follow up with statements to the police.

 

PC Dennett was given permission to question about delivery issue and vulnerability in society today: 

 

PC Dennett:            Who is the applicant going to use for delivery of food and alcohol?

 

Applicants Agent:    Own drivers. 

 

PC Dennett:            The training drivers receive need to be different to those working on premises.  So, as an example if a driver attended a house party and suspected there are minors there what training would they have had for that situation?

 

Applicants Agent:    The training would be delivered to make sure someone over 18 ordered and had the alcohol handed over to them.  Any suspected issue reported to police.

 

PC Dennett:            Just because someone is over 18 does not mean they should be served if others in the area are under 18.  How can this be prevented for an order taking place? 

 

Applicants Agent:    Alcohol for adult only, ordered by and received by adult.  Report to police and if concern the driver will call back store to report and be told to return to store with the delivery. 

 

PC Dennett:            It does not even have to be underage, can be vulnerable for many reasons, so the person at point of delivery needs to recognise at point of delivery and process needs to be in place.  Most premises have policies to prevent vulnerability issues.  No further questions.

 

Cllr Tarbet added with reference to being directed to local amenities that sell alcohol, he did not believe any shop sells alcohol after midnight.  He also expressed concern whether a confrontational situation at the door would be dealt with, even if the person was over 18.

 

The sub committee questioned the applicant several times regarding what measures/training they would put in place for delivering alcohol with orders and recognise vulnerable people and problems.  The applicant stated if there were problems they would not deliver.

 

The Chairman confirmed if there were no further questions, the meeting would now be adjourned for deliberation and that all parties would be notified of the decision later that day or in writing.

 

The Chairman adjourned and closed the meeting at 11.03 am